To watch all rebuttals and closing statements, watch the full video of the debates here: https://www.youtube.com/live/4djsIN9DZiE?si=rnbv43DVZ-zpZxCt
A second group of five candidates seeking Osage Nation Congressional office in the 2024 General Election answered debate questions at the Pawhuska Osage Casino & Hotel on April 6 touching on term limits, protecting the two-spirit community, tourism and their chosen priority, if elected to Congress.
Hosted by the Osage News Editorial Board, the candidate debates featured 14 of the 16 certified candidates running for office and they were separated into three groups with the second group taking five questions drawn by debate moderator and journalist Allison Herrera. Written on folded pieces of paper and placed into a hopper for drawing, the questions came from Osage community members and were supplemented by the Editorial Board.
Each candidate received two minutes for opening statements, responses to questions, one-minute rebuttals and two-minute closing statements. More than 150 attendees watched the debates in the new Pawhuska casino’s special events space.
The second group of debate candidates running for the Ninth ON Congress was Liberty Metcalf, John Maker, Angela Pratt, Alexis Martin and Traci Phillips.
Opening statements
In his second run for Congressional office, Metcalf introduced himself as a Pawhuska Village resident with a University of Oklahoma bachelor’s degree in political science who previously worked for the Department of Interior in Washington, D.C. who understands the legislative process. Metcalf said his work would include the three villages “as far as infrastructure, as far as taking care of our elders, I want to get us up to par, get the plumbing up to par, the electric, the transportation needs, driveways, get everything like that taken care of because those communities are where people come back to whenever they come back home to the rez and I want to be there and provide that infrastructure for them.”
Maker is seeking his fourth Congressional term and said he comes from Hominy where he was raised in a traditional family and is a U.S. Army veteran, master’s degree holder, shareholder and restricted land owner. “I know what it takes to hold this seat and all the challenges that we face and we face many and we’re going to have challenges in the future we’re going to have to address… Our people have faced challenges ever since we were in Missouri, so it’s not new to us but our strength of our Osage people is we work together, that’s the only way we can go into the future successfully by working together,” he said.
Pratt, also an Army veteran from Hominy who recently worked for the U.S. Veterans Affairs, is seeking reelection to Congress after serving two prior Congressional terms, including serving as Congressional Speaker. “I have been a part of the progress that’s happened over the recent years and there is so much more to do. I have been a strong voice for you, I understand this government and that’s really what it takes, I am committed to my people, I’m Osage through and through, that’s just the heart of who I am, my family and who we are. You really have to care about what’s going on with our people, the needs of our people and have a good understanding of our government because it can get very complicated,” she said.
In her first run for Osage elected office, Martin stated to the audience: “I want you all to know you are all deserving of love and support and deep easy breaths that I hope to help provide to you guys… I’m a proud mother of three girls and they’re a huge part of why I’m running today. I have a huge heart for not only our people, but specifically our youth. With the perspective I’ve had and work I’ve done with our tribe with our Osage Nation Counseling Center, I’ve been humbled and honored to help our people, but I’ve also seen where we’re allowing them to fall through the cracks and I think it’s very important that we start looking at the root causes of that and addressing them and creating spaces for them to come and heal… we need a lot of economic development and I have a lot of ideas to help us get through that and help our people.”
Phillips is also a first-time Congressional candidate and introduced herself in the Osage language stating her Osage name, she comes from the Grayhorse District and her relatives. “My husband and I have been married for 23 years, we have one daughter Sable at (University of Tulsa) getting her chemical engineering degree. I am a founder and CEO of Natural Evolution, an electronics recycling company… we’ve recycled over 65 million pounds from federal agencies, tribal governments, Fortune 100 companies and municipalities in the lower 48 (states). Prior to 2003, I spent eight years in information technology in the healthcare and telecom industries. I believe it is vital we exercise and protect our Osage sovereignty, we are resilient as people in this Nation and we are financially secure and the actions I will take will be in support of these commitments,” she said.
First question
The current term limit for elected officials is five terms. Do you feel the terms should be shortened, lengthened or lifted and why?
Metcalf said he believes in term limits for politicians, adding “it shouldn’t be a career, you can help on an elected basis while you’re in office and you can also participate in getting things done when you’re out of office.”
Maker noted he sponsored a resolution that had the ballot question on whether elected officials should have term limits, which voters approved in the 2020 General Election. “When I was working on that bill, I talked to a lot of people wherever I met them, restaurants or wherever, and I said ‘what do you think about term limits?’ Some people were against it and said the voters are the term limits… When the supporters come to you and say ‘hey, we want you to run’ and I said ‘if you support me, I’ll run as long as the people vote me in.’”
Pratt also was on Congress when the term limits resolution came up and said: “When I first heard of term limits being discussed, the first time was in 2012 when it was already being discussed. I kinda thought that was interesting because our government just started in 2006 – so somebody was already tired of somebody – So then it took many sessions over and over and this was discussed as Congressman Maker stated. He did bring it up several times to discuss it… I do know tribal leaders who spend many years there, 15, 20, 25 years. When things are going good, your tribe is thriving, your economic development is cruising, why change? I’d hate for you to lose a really good leader, however, we got there because I think it was originally written you’d come in 20 years, you’d have to sit out a term then you’d come back and start over. And I believe that Congresswoman (Alice) Goodfox actually said ‘well I don’t know, if you’re out then you should maybe be out,’ so I think we amended it to 20 years and you’re gone… However, the people spoke and that’s where we’re at now.”
Martin said “I personally do not believe one way or the other if we should or we shouldn’t. I believe, like John said, the people are the voters, they will vote for who they feel like needs to be in there and I believe if you’re running with a good heart and good intention for your people, that they will see that and they’ll vote you in and I believe that’s important and I believe we should allow each individual the time they feel like they need to complete whatever missions they see would help our people thrive.”
Phillips said “the people have the voice and so people have engaged people that actively vote, actually make the decisions of who sits in the seats and that I believe is a very powerful tool and we can have term limits, but having experienced people in your government I think is really important, so I’m not against term limits if that’s what the people want. Ultimately they have the vote every election.”
Second question
Would you fund an Osage Nation Chamber of Commerce? And if so, would that funding be limited to reservation-based Osage-owned businesses or not? Please explain your answer.
Maker said creating a Chamber of Commerce “would take a lot of discussion… We have our LLCs, we depend on them to do all our businesses, yeah, that would take a lot of discussion right there… The funding part? That would probably be unpopular with the Osage public, I would say. It would take a lot of discussion, town hall meetings… That’s a complicated question right there. I couldn’t give a yes or no on that without a lot of discussion… The most calls I get are from out-of-state members who feel like they’re not getting everything they deserve and I think that applies to most calls of any Congress past or present, we get those calls all the time. That is a tough one.”
During her past Congressional tenure, Pratt vaguely recalled a resolution (of support) that came up years ago regarding a chamber group of Osage-owned businesses and “at that time, it wasn’t necessarily something we were looking to fund because we aren’t necessarily set up in that way. Hopefully we will move forward with the small business loans with the CDFI – The Place to Borrow Money organization board – moving forward… Would I be opposed to supporting (a chamber)? No. I don’t know what their support would really need, maybe operate like other chambers of commerce groups. And I think that would be up to them, whether they want to have means of communication with Osage-owned businesses outside of the reservation.”
Martin said “I am absolutely not against this question at all, I think this would be great. We have many, many Native American-owned businesses that are small and trying to thrive and I feel like we should do everything that we possibly can to help them set up and do their best. I think that goes back to our economic development that we have to be sustainable in order to sustain other businesses and I hope to see that we start investing in other ways that create revenue.”
Phillips said she “sat on the board of the American Indian Chamber of Commerce for several years and participated for over a decade or longer in the (AICC) in both the states of Oklahoma and New Mexico. So I see the value in working with other businesses. If there wanted to be a group that started another chapter, aligning themselves with an already thriving organization is actually the most successful way to go. I’m for a small business development center and working with and supporting other entrepreneurs is very successful and that’s actually how you support economic growth.”
Metcalf said “regarding the chamber of commerce issue, I believe that is something that would require a fair amount of research, but I do believe that the hope and outcome would be positive to have all our businesses that could collaborate together and provide for each other and help each other out. As far as should the funding – I think the tribe should support Osages no matter where you live.”
Third question
This question was asked in the form of the following statement: “As part of the Osage Nation and a member of the two-spirit (LGBT) community, it is important to know how you plan on protecting us as individuals and members of the tribe during this tumultuous time.”
Pratt said she has a close family member who is bisexual, adding she supports the two-spirit community “and obviously it hits close to home for me and the way they might be treated or perceived in the community… So, if there are needs, the Congress, the Osage Nation would need to hear more from that, but obviously from being available to them and making sure that they know we support them and offer support groups, counseling, I would need to understand a little more of what their needs might be, that’s definitely first and foremost.”
Martin said “my faith calls me to love God first and foremost, but next love my neighbors and love myself. So, I am in full support of every single one of our tribal members no matter how they identify and if they’re in need of legislation, I’m willing to listen and I would hope the rest of our candidates would be willing to listen. I’ve been a firm advocate for people and their mental health and I know we have long suffered as a people, tons of abuse that has stemmed back to the boarding school days and we haven’t been able to deal with that, I don’t think in a right and just way. I believe we need to start creating spaces for any individual who has suffered any kind of trauma to come forward and know they are going to be loved and they’re going to be supported in anything they are needing to do to become the best versions of themselves. And I would hope and I would ask that the rest of the candidates and the incumbents and the people that are still in seats now that they realize that and if they don’t give them a seat at the table, then I suggest you bring a folding chair.”
Phillips said “I’m completely against any discrimination against any persons no matter how they identify, sexual orientation, however that is. We are all Osages and that’s how I view it. And if there’s any particular needs, that communities aren’t feeling that they’re supported, then I welcome that conversation and see what we can do to change that and support them in any way that is necessary.”
Metcalf said “this is a difficult question, it’s not anything novel. Culturally, it’s something as difficult as far as bullying goes and being transgender or queer as some people used to say in the past, I don’t know if that’s still the term. But I don’t believe that they should be bullied or assaulted, it’s nobody’s business who they sleep with, who they like. What they do behind closed doors is nobody’s business… If it should be addressed, I would say contact your local officials and maybe they can get something started with you. And if you’re being assaulted or bullied, then you should definitely contact someone and get help with that and report that.”
Maker said “I would just go with existing state and federal law we already have in place. We all know this is in the news quite a bit,” and referred to the recent suicide of Owasso High School student Nex Benedict who identified as non-binary. “It was really horrible, but as for the Osage tribe, I think we do a good job of respecting all of our tribal members with regards to their lifestyle, we don’t try to get involved in their way of life, I think that’s up to the individual of what they want to do.”
Fourth question
As a member of Congress, which funding area would you prioritize: Health, Education or Direct Services? And why?
Martin said “absolutely No. 1 would be health with my experience and perspective that I have in the mental health and substance use area. I see where the people are falling through the cracks. I’ve been doing my best to create relationships throughout the county that will help us build these bridges and fill these holes so that we do not have any more overdoses, we do not have any more suicides so we have individuals who feel loved and supported. I think that starts with our mental health and meeting our members’ Maslow Hierarchy of Needs – their basic fundamental needs. I think it will be very hard to sustain the casino or any economic development that we may have if we do not have people in a good way to do so.”
Phillips responded “So we’ve already committed a lot to ‘The Big Three’ (the Nation’s health benefit, higher education scholarship and burial assistance programs) and so, it’s hard to roll those programs back. But if I had to pick one – health. My dad died of diabetes at 59, I’ve had my own struggles, my daughter’s had health problems, my husband’s had five surgeries in 18 months. I understand the challenges and debilitating effect on families… Really, you can’t do anything else unless you are physically and mentally healthy and so, if I had to pick just one, it would be health.”
Metcalf said “I would prioritize healthcare for a lot of the reasons that my fellow candidates have spoken on. It’s hard to learn when you’re sick and as far as statistics go in Indian Country, as far as teen suicide, infant mortality rates, it’s not very good across the country and that’s something that a lot of tribes are having to deal with because frankly diabetes, alcoholism, drug addiction are killing people. Suicide – people see no way out of the reservation, they’ve lost their hope, they don’t know what to do, they’ve got nowhere to go. Perhaps they’re (LGBQ)… let’s just say they’re that way, but anyway, I would definitely prioritize healthcare.”
Maker said he thinks “the Nation is doing a good job with the resources we have from gaming, our direct services and if I did have to choose one, the top priority would be health because of how important it is – it’s life or death – Getting a college degree isn’t life or death, but having good healthcare is. We just got to all remember our elders, our former leaders, they always made sure that our people were taken care of. We have a word in our language it’s called ‘wa-hoin,’ that’s respect and we need to have more of that in this Nation and… We need to have a good spirit to take care of our people.”
Pratt said “I would also address healthcare. We as Native people, are being healthy as was mentioned from a holistic approach, and health is everything. Health includes even having food security, proper housing, and access to clean drinking water. There are many tribes throughout the (U.S.) that don’t have those things. So it’s a holistic approach, it’s mind, body and spirit. And so, as a longtime advocate for health, I spoke (at her announcement event) about normalizing these kinds of conversations and helping folks to understand that it’s OK to ask for help, it’s OK to ask for counseling. Native veteran suicide has risen by 52% and that is unacceptable. So these are all things that are plaguing our communities and all across Indian Country. We talk about how powerful the mind is, if your mind’s not strong, the rest of your body’s not going to work properly… We have to do whatever we can to support (health needs) moving forward.”
Fifth question
As a member of Congress and with the recent tourist activity stemming from the film, “Killers of the Flower Moon,” would you fund a tourism department for the Osage Nation?
Phillips said “Yes, I actually believe we should have a Department of Commerce and tourism can fall underneath that. We need to increase our economic development. When you come to Osage Reservation and you want to do business, it’s very difficult to figure out who you’re going to do business with and there’s a lot of moving parts, there’s no actual central place that’s looking at the big picture. We have our LLC, that’s part of their job, but we can do so much better and tourism falls under economic development in my mind.”
Metcalf said “the tribe should definitely have a tourism department. I think they should support tourism, as well as educating the outside public on who we are and why we’re here. With that being said, tourists in a lot of communities are lifeblood and we need to have business to support the people that come here to visit us and that all ties back to economic development.”
Maker also stated “I’m all for tourism, especially with all the publicity for the movie. Our people have been in the news forever. It’s not just because they made a movie, we’ve been in the news since we first came to Oklahoma. I will say this about what we’re doing now, we’re doing all we can with our resources. There’s a lot of wonderful things we would love to do if we could afford it. We have to work within our budget, our projected revenue and if we can work something in there for tourism, I’m all for it.”
Pratt responded: “I, with a comprehensive plan, would discuss a tourism department and I know there’s been an effort like that before and I will say – because this is all part of the record – I have voted ‘no’ to (budgeting for) a tourism person. It was bill that came before us (during her prior Congressional tenure), but it had one salary and benefits and that was it. So then as a Congress person, you ask those questions – What is this person going to do? We don’t know yet. Well, where is this person going to go? We don’t know yet. Well, then in good faith, I can’t fund this without a plan, right? And so then, but when we say ‘no’ to things on Congress, that doesn’t mean you don’t support them and sometimes that gets misconstrued as you just don’t support it. But you can’t walk away and say ‘they don’t support it.’ That’s not true, we just don’t support it without a comprehensive plan. And so, I think that should be a priority. Tourism is the third economic driver in the state of Oklahoma. Should we be capitalizing on that as a Nation? Yes.”
Martin said “I would be in support of a tourism department… I think Pawhuska District has a lot of people who come to see many things we have in that area and I think that a tourism department can help push those people out toward other districts that might not have as much of that traffic as Pawhuska does. I think that will be important for their economies as well.”
The 2024 General Election is June 3 and early voting will be held May 31-June 1 with in-person voting at the Pawhuska Osage Casino & Hotel.
